People are the System

A recap: Our last post established the idea that we think that covens and hierarchical structures aren’t necessarily abusive. The discussion suggesting that they are, (we think) can be a misplaced rhetoric bordering on panic. 

Before we get to examining the three questions I referred to in my previous blog post, there’s something Thorn says in her video that we think every seeker in the Australian witchcraft and pagan community needs to hear because a ‘phone tree’ isn’t a familiar term or language to us; there is no central system recording who abusers are. And whilst we’re at it, there’s no standard definition of abuse either. 

There’s no formal complaints process in witchcraft spaces. No central authority. And if no law has been broken, there is no one to complain to if things go ‘wrong’ spiritually. So we have suggested ways to reframe and rethink this topic entirely with some questions for the seeker to think about as well. Before we jump into that, I want to gently revisit the discussion around abuse and how we approach it. 

So what does abuse actually mean in this context? Well, that’s not a question I can answer cleanly for you. I want to be careful here too because what I’m about to say isn’t an attempt to minimise anyone’s experience. 

Interpersonal conflict in community spaces is inevitable. Discomfort, difficult dynamics, and behaviour can fall somewhere on a spectrum of ‘not ok’ to genuinely harmful. These things can, will, and do happen. What constitutes harm for one person may not for another, and in my experience I think that difference is shaped by background, experience and individual capacity for resilience. So I cannot define that threshold for you. 

Where things become abundantly clearer is at the legal end of the spectrum. Any illegal act is well, illegal regardless of the context in which it occurs. Be that a coven space, a public or private ritual circle, or the wider community. It does not create a separate jurisdiction. I want to be VERY clear. Assault, theft, fraud, sexual violence or threats there of…. eg these are crimes, full stop, and should be reported to police if the victims involved feel safe and supported to do so. And I want to acknowledge that it can be difficult to take these allegations to police as well – it’s not always as simple as to say ‘just make a police report’ – it’s a nuanced issued.

Coercive control offers a useful comparison point here, even though its current legal definition in NSW applies specifically to intimate partner relationships. It describes a pattern of behaviour used to dominate, isolate, or manipulate. That pattern can appear in community and group contexts even where the law doesn’t yet reach it. Recognising what coercive control looks like is still a useful tool for evaluating dynamics in any high-trust relationship, including covens or other small group environments. Do with that what you will. 

But how does all this function in the real world of the Australian witch, pagan and occult communities? I’ve been in groups where things weren’t entirely comfortable, and certain behaviours were borderline problematic. I was able to distance myself when those groups became difficult (and I know not everyone can do that). There are people that we see within the Australian local community who we think are predatory and problematic. People that we think might take advantage of others based on their past behaviour, and there are those who, in our view, actively enable them. We’ll talk about how the community might deal with that later. 

As Thorn says there’s no ‘phone tree’ and she’s right. There is no abuse registry. There is no recorded network that reliably tracks who has harmed someone, how, when, and distributes that information to people who might need to know. Covens and groups are autonomous. Communities are fragmented across platforms, traditions, geographies, and generations. This isn’t a failure of any particular tradition, but it’s a structural reality of how these communities work, and it applies here in Australia just as it does as anywhere else. 

What this means practically, is that information about harm, but also information about who is trustworthy, who is skilled, who runs a good group, travels through people, not institutions. Thorn refers to them as ‘whisper networks’ and frankly, it’s something we can appreciate, but it’s something to tread very carefully with. She’s right that informal community knowledge is often the most functional safety tool available. But if you choose to participate in these networks, you need to be very mindful to not publish untrue statements that are potentially slanderous or defamatory. You might get yourself in hot water legally if you do.

It’s such a fine line to walk. Do so mindfully. So what do you do?

We encourage newcomers (and experienced people) to spend time in community spaces, at events and open circles, before committing to any particular group, or teacher. The more connected you are to the broader community, the more access you have to that informal knowledge network. That’s how a community without formal safeguarding infrastructure actually functions.

So what does this look like in practice? Common sense, and critical thinking.

How do you know what you’re hearing in the whisper networks might be true, false, or otherwise? Here are some tips on thinking critically. 

It might help to borrow a framework from academic research called the CRAAP test. It was originally designed to help students evaluate their sources, but it asks you to consider Currency, Relevance, Authority, Accuracy, and Purpose. The logic applies for community knowledge – who is saying this, when, why and what do they stand to gain. Keep this in mind.  

• Check multiple sources, independently. Don’t rely on a single person’s account, positive or negative. Talk to people across different parts of the witchy or pagan community, across different platforms, and where possible in person. If the same name keeps coming up positively from genuinely different directions, that means something. If the same name keeps coming up with hesitation or concern, that also means something even if no one is saying anything explicit. Look for the silent head shakes saying ‘nooooo’ or ask for explicit reason on a non-identifying basis. It’s a bit like asking for a reference for a job. If a source refuses to give a reference, that’s a pretty damning ‘tell’ in itself. It’s ok and reasonable to ask why you’d not want to work with someone in a magickal capacity. Some communities call this a vouch, and there are soft and hard ways to go about this in other spaces. 
• Pay attention to who recommends whom, and why. In a healthy community, recommendations tend to be specific, grounded, and sometimes qualified – they sound like ‘she’s brilliant on this but not so much on that, or ‘he runs a great open circle but I wouldn’t do a closed working with him’. Flat, unconditional praise from a tight cluster of the same people is worth scrutinising. So is the absence of anyone outside that cluster ‘vouching’ for someone.
• Notice who is doing their own promotion, and who isn’t. If the loudest voice recommending someone is always that person themselves, ask yourself why? Genuinely well-regarded teachers and group leaders tend to be recommended by the people who have worked with them, past and present. But again, if it’s all the same people recommending the same people, ask why. And ask that again. Reputation built on self-promotion alone is thin, and it’s worth asking what’s underneath it. Also, are they currently trying to sell you something? Usually, self-promotion is also self-serving. 
• Silence is also information. If you ask someone experienced and well-connected about a particular teacher or group and they go quiet, change the subject, or give you a very careful non-answer, pay careful attention to that. People in small communities often can’t or won’t speak directly about their concerns, but they communicate anyway. It’s a bit like non-verbal body language. Learn to read what isn’t being said. Also, if you never see those experienced people at the events of others that you’re not sure about, there’s likely a good reason for that too. People vote with their feet. They will not openly, or frequently support someone they disagree with, or have had conflict with.
  

Sincerely, most of what you’ll find in the wider occult, witchy and pagan communities is pretty ordinary. People find their people. We circle together, we practice magick together, and we live our lives together, fairly drama-free and unremarkably so. Remember what I said in the last post about most people acting in good faith? That applies both ways with seekers and teachers. Most people are doing their best to be decent people.

With that in mind, here are the questions that I’ll explore in the next series of blog posts. I will jump into my thoughts on the following: 

• Can I ask questions here without consequence? 
• Can I disagree without being punished? 
• Can I leave without being threatened? 

AND I’m going to expand this further to help you inspire you to create your own way of figuring out when/if you’ve found the right group for you. It won’t answer everything, but it might inspire your thinking in the right direction.

Remember, stay connected. Don’t isolate, and don’t choose a single group before you’ve had a chance to get your bearings.

Our Boundaries & Belonging panel and resource pack covered much of the same ground, and it started the conversation in person. Have a read. It’s important to consider what you want as a seeker. And what you’re looking for and why. We’ll run a workshop on this topic again soon. Join our mailing list for your invite. We exist to build a stronger witchcraft, occult and pagan community in Western Sydney and beyond.  

(For a more scholarly discussion on the wider topic, check out Dr Angela Puca’s youtube on High Control Groups (not to be confused with Covens at all)

If this post has triggered a need for you to seek help, please reach out for support. 

https://www.nsw.gov.au/family-and-relationships/coercive-control

https://1800respect.org.au